I'm retired from racing. Really.

I've used Yasso's for a few of my marathons and have been pretty pleased with them. It seems that they project maybe a little quick (2:40 800's would net a 2:45ish marathon). But the big thing is that your out doing some quicker stuff at a pace that is actually close to a threshold pace for whatever level you are at. And of course, nothing pays off if you aren't backing it up with appropriate miles and recovery.

That said, this year I am veering off of the Yasso's a bit (although I will tie in some 800's) in favor of 1000's, 1200's and 1600's. Fun stuff!

Yassos - Pace is too fast. Interval duration is too short. Recovery is too long. A marathoner's time and energy can be better spent somewhere else.

In my short marathoning career- I have found them to be a pretty good workout for me. As long as that is not your only speed type workout of the week. I try and do at least 2 other runs with tempo type of speed and more race related distance.

They were pretty scarry ture last year. My ave. time on a 800 was around 2:38 and then I ran a 2:36 in STGM. But I was doing longer tempo type workouts too. Also I've changed things a bit. Instead of Yasso's 10x800 and recovery, time ect. I've tried to work up to around 8x800's with a 400 recovery but most of the time it's around 6x800. Then the pace is a little harder than the marathon cross over. Last year my goal pace was to break 2:40 so I would just run every 800 trying to be under 2:40. Sometimes I'd be much faster, sometimes right on the nose.

This year is the same. Goal to break 2:30 in the STGM so I just try to run my 800's under 2:30.

So long story short. Do I think it's the best workout in the world. No. Do I think it's a good one to get some faster turnover and one that I'll make myself do weekly. Yes. So lets call "Clyde's" and not Yasso's.

Directions: go to the track and run as many 800's as you can hard or hhaaad if your in Boston. Goal time is always under your next marathon goal in mins, not hours.

Maybe next year I'll grow up and do a real track workout like Paul's today. But right now it sounds way too hhaad.

Clyde I can see it from up hheeyaa!

Dave-

I can see the maahk as the ball hits the ground 200 ft away.

Maybe I'll drive in my caah to the track to look for the maahk.

Paul- do you think they are a waste even for someone like me whose biggest weakness is speed?

Jon - I didn't say they were a waste, just that time can be better spent on different workouts. LT and MP running are more marathon-specific. I think there is some benefit to V02 workouts for marathoners, but a relatively poor ROI compared to others.

To increase speed, try instead adding 8x100m or 4-6x200m hard striders at the end of any workout with full recovery. These will not take much out of you and will help with form, economy, turnover, and speed. Or even some 400s with full recovery (basically "glorified striders"). This is analogous to Daniels [R] pace. They are all about form.

Clyde - your workout today looked plenty hard to me! I don't know if I could run 2:22 if I tried, and it makes my legs burn just thinking about. I think V02 workouts hurt more than anything. The thing about shorter recoveries (30s-60s) is that it forces one to scale back the pace during the intervals, so it's not really as bad as it sounds.

Striders- I knew I was neglecting something.

So your workout yesterday would qualify as a hard LT workout?

Jon - the intervals were definitely an LT workout.

I don't have an opinion as I have never done them before. But I am interested in this thread.

Did I just read that Paul Petersen didn't know if he could run a 2:22 800 meter? That is pretty funny!

I know People that have had a lot of success with that workout, and I think it might be fairly accurate. If I could run ten 800s at 2:40 pace I would definitely be able to run faster than 2:45. I don't think that I could run ten 800s at 2:40 pace!

Other People, like Paul make their livings off of tempo. Personally, I like 800s, and I hate tempo, but I think that both can be effective. Do what you like and keep some variety in your workouts. I wouldn't do 800s all of the time, or the same tempo run every week.

I am somewhere between Clyde and Paul on Yasso's. I think they are useful, but should be used sparingly--especially in training for longer races (e.g. one workout, every other week). For instance, week 1 you would have Yasso's early in the week, a tempo/LT type run in the middle or later in the week and a long run on Saturday/Sunday. The next week, you would remove the Yasso's altogether, run a tempo/LT type workout in the middle of the week and on Saturday/Sunday you're back to a long run, but with 10-12 miles of it on marathon pace in the middle or last miles. The next week you're back to the Yasso/tempo/long run pattern from week one. Obviously the number, intensity, etc. will change with where you're at in your training cycle, but you can simply adjust for where your training is at. Aside from the general implementation described above, I actually Yasso's out to 1000m instead of 800's (provided you are at a fitness level to handle them), and cutting the rest to about 1/2 to 2/3 of the time you run as opposed to rest what you run. I guess looking at all of this, I err on Paul's side--I think the tempo/LT and long runs with marathon pace thrown in are more important than Yasso's, but they can definitely help change up training and keep a little bit of speed.

Jon, Sorry I can't I have PC Marathon. I know John Erickson's team is looking for masters also if you find some extras, but thanks for the offer. I'm going to do it soon. It sounds like a good weekend.

Jon, also sorry. x-Country season = no life or time.

I like the topic, I've been wondering a little about 800s myself. I did a workout of 4x800 last night in 100+ temperatures. My pace was faster than what I would normally run Yasso 800s in. I did Yasso 800s last year and was between 2:45-2:50 for each one, and my marathon time turned out to be 2:46 so that was right on. This year I'm hoping to run around 2:40, so the Yasso's have been around 2:40. I feel pretty confident I can do 6 to 8 at this pace, but when I try to go much faster than 2:40, I've struggled a little and need more time to recover between each interval.

Jon- I did move, but that doesn't mean that you can't still invite me on your long club runs like the one this Saturday!

Do you want to come this Saturday? We are meeting at my house at 5:50 or at Newton park at 6:30 sharp.

Yasso's are a good predictor of marathon performance for a true marathoner, and a very bad one for a middle distance runner. However, training-wise, they are more of a 5 K, possibly 10 K training workout. For the marathon, you need mileage, long runs, and tempos.

I am a runner who considers herself a mid-pack runner who typically finishes in the top 25-30% of a large marathon (that's not saying much with all the walkers joining the marathon ranks). I agree with the above posters about the Yassos. They are a very useful tool and I love doing them (afterward). I do them about every other week with other speed/tempo/threshold runs between. As Sasha says they are a good predictor of marathon performance, as Bart intended them to be. I've just found that I need to use them in training to keep myself on track for the "predictor" run of 10x800 a few weeks before the marathon.